Ms. Wen takes narrates her journey as a young woman navigating the Red Guard Movement and adapting to rural life during the Cultural Revolution. She describes overcoming fears, establishing a successful propaganda (advertisement, not in a pejorative connotation) team, and cultivating a spirit of resilience that later shaped her career and sense of self-assurance.
00：00：00 J.L.: Greetings Ms. Wen, I am greatly appreciative that you have come today to conduct this interview with me，and I would like you to know that your contribution to zhiqing research is of great value. These original views and experiences are priceless for historians coming afterwards. [So]，I am interviewer Jingxuan Lin, [and] I am conducting this interview in the Ocean Mansion (Haifu Residential and Business Complex) in Bao’an District, Shenzhen, China, on July 5[, 2024], and out interview equipment consists of these two attachable microphones connected to that phone (iPhone 11 Pro Max). Before we commence, Ms. Wen, do you have any other questions or concerns [about this interview]?
J.W: I do not have such concerns，I appreciate xuanxuan [endearing name for J.L.] and your family for providing, uh what we call the elderly [people], such a wonderful opportunity, to recall and reflect upon that special era. Much thanks!
J.L.: Thank you; so we will commence.
J.W.: Great.
J.L.: Awesome，so Ms. Wen, as I gathered when doing research on the Cultural Revolution，that [rustication] all starts with this “Red Guard Movement” between [19]66 and [19]68。So with respect to this movement，what opinions might you have held then and now?[1]
J.W.: So for the Red Guard Movement of the Cultural Revolution, yeah so with respect to this movement, to now I still appreciate it at the bottom of my heart. Why? Because we in this period, we departed school education, right? But we learned more stuff from society. First we stepped out of the gates of the school, suddenly entering from an ordinary period into a period of war. Really actually the beginning of the Cultural revolution was very tumultuous, because this was divided into two parties/factions, one the rebels/revolutionaries, one the conservative party. So in this way, we Chongqing was also one of the more intense [locations] of struggle in the Cultural Revolution; the 815 Rebel Party and the other workers advertise that they are the conservative party. So when these two factions formed, for us people, some of whom followed our parents, but many parents joined what at the time was referred to as the conservative party. Us, we definitely joined the 815 Party, that was a difference in opinion[s]. And when this [conflict] became entrenched, possibly at the beginning it was still in the debate stage, and after the Big Character Posters came out, …we went to see the big character posters [every day], and the nights are dominated by the debates. You could walk to any school, for example in our district of Shapingba—it was a cultural district—where schools were plentiful, and important (special) schools [too]! The No. 1 Middle School, the No. 3 Middle School, the [University’s] Attached Middle School, these were all key schools at the national level, and in front of the schools were mountains and oceans of people. Doing what? Debating. With respect to our opinion, ah at the time I remember our age was, we were teenagers, like 16 or something, so we did not understand the debates that much. In the beginning, we went to watch every day, and after watching we understood. And so we stood on the side of the Rebels，right？
[nod from J.L.]
Yes, well，by then the parent generations had a lot of conservatives，they stood on the other side. Initially it was only verbal debates, normal at first, but later it gradually developed to intensify, after intensification came the fighting, after fighting came gun violence. In Chongqing, the tanks were [even] rolled out.
J.L.: [understandingly] Ahh.
J.W.: Mhm，we thought it was horrifying，because one day I was on the street[s of Shapingba], and wow boom boom boom! I saw a truck[load] of people taking guns and strafing, and I at that time ran to hide, and so at this period we sensed that this was not normal, thinking, “ai yah! How did [the revolution] go onto the path of violence and rapine？There were more cases of violence and rapine since then.
[A pause]
J.L.: oh.
J.W.: But now reflecting back, even though we experienced all this, I think it’s normal. Because in the circumstances then, I think, well for us back then, having not fully entered into society, we were forced into it. Kind of pushed. Normally, you would step into society after you graduate university at twenty something years old, but we entered prematurely. 00：05：00 We entered and intervened, not knowing what specifically to do then, but afterwards in this process of debating，so from this change of mindset, I found that it (our entrance into society) was necessary. In the end, I think Chairman Mao’s path was correct. For me.
J.L.: Oh, so what topics, subject matters, or main contentions were mentioned at your political debates?
J.W.: Well in the Cultural Revolution，yeah sometimes if you stand on the wrong side, you stand on this Rebel Party, especially our older generation, like my parents, they would feel that it is necessary for us to fight back and preserve the [existing] regime.[2] That I should stand on the side of the conservatives, so the Rebel Party thing turned its flavor, right? So, the [existing] regime, say like Jiang Qing and the Gang of Four, they screwed everything up to be like this, we of course had to rise up against them. These were the contentions on both sides. I think their perceptions of the situation, well, it was their perception, [which], from their perspectives, they reflect back now and think that holding those views was correct. But after this process [of revolution] evolved so much—afterwards you have so much violence and rapine—and [we] discovered that the movement deviated, lost its track. But sometimes I ask, without undergoing this [deviation of violence], how would everyone see clearly which [faction is good or bad]?
[a pause]
J.L.: yep
J.W.: So gradually, following this, [we] realized later, that this situation [of violence] was normal, in a country, right? A family would have different opinions, and so does a country. And when these different opinions do not come to reconciliation, they would intensify, radicalize, and come into conflict [with each other]; so why don’t we reconcile them? There must have been a reason for the country to be like this [before the Cultural Revolution], our nation must have had its own reason, which we cannot understand. Say, how would we fathom what was happening in the core of our country in the beginning [of the Revolution]? So we afterwards felt that as this [Red Guard] movement occurred, everyone finally became cognizant, that the proletarian way was correct.
J.L.: yes, yes, when I was researching this Cultural Revolution lead by Chairman Mao, the heaviest emphasis was on [empowering] the farmers and proletarian workers. And another emphasis was that the youths were the proponents of this Revolution, so as a youth during the Red Guards Movement, what role did you see yourself play?
J.W.: well [though] as a rebel, I did not, like others, go to the fighting scenes, and even the gun fights, I have not experienced. So I would say I did not intervene in the violence, I was only on the side spectating their debates, which I would watch without speaking, because at the time I did not feel the audacity, as a 16 year old, to intervene. So we weren’t the most committed to these political debates, but some [people] entered into the situation, as “military commanders” and such. Though they have put themselves into these characters, we have not; we stayed on the side, did not enter the violence. Their actions were radical, possibly deviating from the track of the revolution, turning protecting [Mao Zedong and the proletariat] into gunfights, but I abstained from intervening.
00：10：00
J.L.: ahh, so during the Red Guard Movement, you served as a spectator, if I am getting that right. [J.W. nods] So later in 1968 Chairman Mao said that the youth should “go to the wide countryside and achieve much,” right? So I am interested in whether you rusticated voluntarily in response to his call or were coerced by your local government’s policies to go to the countryside?
J.W.: so after the Cultural Revolution, so many years later, we have never gotten to learn much knowledge from school. But through our own learning methods, we [read books] and learned on our own, unlike some people who discontinued their studies and went to effectuate violence and rapine. Some even [exploited the situation to] do bad, evil things. Others, who became the leaders of the Revolution, well they were more into it. We as bystanders, of course I followed the path delineated by Chairman Mao. Even though we were Rebels, we always defended Chairman Mao’s thought, always loyal to him, and never having done anything radical or violent. No, but after Chairman Mao dictated that the educated youths had to go “up the mountains and down to the countryside, and receive the education from the rural peasants, I felt that it was necessary for us to go. So I did not feel otherwise nor resisted his call, and I followed my school’s organization to rusticate to my old rural hometown. We negotiated within the family, and we thought that rusticating to my old rural hometown was well within reason. I had not thought otherwise, so I eagerly signed up to go rusticate.
J.L.: Ahh, so you were a very passionate youth.
J.W.: right, and I left quite early, because I departed [for the countryside] during January of 1969.
J.L.: Oh because Chairman Mao delivered his address about rustication during December of 1968, right?
J.W.: yes, because well I needed a month to contact my family and such; you would need to do that, right? So immediately after contacting my family there, I rusticated in January.
J.L.: Great, so which specific school, had you attended back in Chongqing (city), and to which specific village have you rusticated through toukao?[3]
J.W.: you know each school follows an arrangement. So according to the location of your school [in the city], which was Xiaolongkan of Shapingba district，we were organized to rusticate to Wushan, a very far village in Wushan. So actually my parents were quote concerned, because it was you alone travelling so far away, right? So they arranged for me to return to my old rural home, where we had a house. Out of a comprehensive consideration, we thought that I would also develop better had I returned to my old village.
J.L.: So you returned to your old village, and would you say the conditions for you would be more comfortable, or less, than those who were dispatched to the unknown frontiers or hinterlands? J.W.: Well you could not call anyone’s experience “comfortable,” but rather groups perceive [their experiences] in different ways. Say there are “student leaders” for each group [of rusticated youths] right? The student leaders’ attitudes are very important. If they are very positive[ly oriented], then they would help energize the entire group positively. If this leader is one who exploited the violence and rapine of the revolution for their own good, then the situation would be terrible for the rusticated youths [in the group]. They might [do bad things] like steal domesticated animals, lie, cheat [the system]. But where I was, I was by myself. So I had a very adamantly positive attitude so that nothing, no hardship, could affect me. I wanted to affect others [positively]. Who would I affect? The rural peasants. So I felt that I was doing good in the countryside, but had I followed my classmates [to Wushan], they might not have had such great attitudes. 00：15：00 If they were all positively oriented [in attitude towards rustication], I might have fared better. Conversely, if they are negatively-oriented，then I might have been affected to also be negative. But for me where I was, I held a strong faith that I can affect other people positively, which suited my character.
J.L.: Ahh, so would you like to elaborate on what were the specific things that you did in the countryside that affected the rural peasants positively? You know, what were your impacts on the rural peasants and subsequently yourself?
J.W.: So firstly, I grew up in Chongqing. My family was not…wealthy, per se, but I was raised delicately. I have not performed much manual labour when I was young, because my grandmother [and grandfather] was there to do everything. I was also afraid to get up at night [because of the dark]; for example, if you did not turn on the light, I dare not arise from my bed. So you can say I was timid, even cowardly. I also had not cooked, and many other domestic chores I have not performed. And when I went to the countryside, I was reeducated by the rural peasants. This reeducation, well for my perception, it eliminated all my squeamishness and pampered, spoiled lifestyle. The things I have not dared to try, I needed to break through [and try]. And so bringing this mindset, I went to the countryside, where many challenges awaited me. I first went and had to overcome many challengesand to break through, you had to attempt these [tasks]. So firstly we had to go do agricultural labor. I had not done agricultural work at home, and as soon as I went I had to go dig in the fields. The first day, when I arrived at the village with my mother, I set the luggage aside [in my home], and I took a hoe and went with them (the rural peasants) to go dig in the fields. To dig the fiends of which vegetables? Well, it was something maybe like lettuce. Lettuce! Even though we plucked out the lettuce then, the ground was dry and I could not plough it. The hoe cannot be thrusted into the ground! It is the same with the plot of land on the mountains; even though we plucked off the vegetables, and not long after I started digging, my hands were filled with blood blisters.
J.L.: you don’t say.
J.W.: Because I did not know how to grip it, I [thought I] had to hold it tight! And bam! As it lands the blood blisters form. And my mother [on the first day] was standing on the side of the field on the slopes [of a mountain], and she saw that I was crying, and so she cried as well.
Ay yo! It hurted so much! The blood blister. And I hastened to get the bandage (adhesive tape), which I had prepared myself, and applied it onto my hands. After I taped it on, I continued working. This was my first challenge, labour. Ay, these hands, which were not suited to working, were full of blisters and yet on the second and third day I resolutely continued, and gradually these blisters turned into calluses.
And then was the challenge of acclimating to residential life [in the countryside]. We were unaccustomed to the land and the waters here. So, you can’t really see anything biting you [in bed, or in the fields], but your body itches agonizingly everyday! Even my heart felt itchy. It was really unspeakable. I did not know where it came from: I had not seen [it]! You can hit [your skin] and there was nothing. So [I conclude] that it was just the land and waters [to which I was unaccustomed]. And from day until night, I had scratched myself, itchy, for at least more than half a year to a year. During the day I would scratch on, and at night I could not sleep tight. But I continue to rise up to do the agricultural labor. Because it was my job, and I had to do it. Slowly, the itchy parts I have already scratched through my skin. And uh it turned into this layer and layer of scabs, all over my skin. When the scabs turned itchy, I would scratch it again, and all over again I would [scratch though the skin and] get a new scab. In the later stages, I let the itchiness be and went to sleep. I ignored it and it wasn’t so [bad] anymore.
After the challenge of acclimating to the land, there was the challenge of me not understanding basic life skills. Initially, when I first arrived, I did not even know to identify when or how water boiled! When the villagers discovered this they went out to tell, to tell that “when I told our girl here to boil water, and I left momentarily [for other business], she tried to boil water but it did not even work! So at that time, I decided in my heart, that I need to become omnipotent. Whatever they (the villagers) can do, I need to be able to do. (repeat) Whatever they (the villagers) can do, I need to be able to do as well.
So later, when going down to the fields, there were locusts, which were scary as h*ll. They shook in the fields and in your skin! Shaking on… 00：20：00 The more something or it shook, the deeper the locusts went beneath the surface. You can’t go catch it, because you[r movement] will only make it go further down. So, ay ya! What I had feared the most was going down into the fields to transplant the rice seeds. But I went everytime the job called anyways. I went even though I was afraid. And also, ay, and also the work we did! So in the end, they (the villagers) would say that even thought she did not know how to do the things (agricultural labor and domestic chores) [back then], she does them well now.
So, as a reward, we should let her do sericulture (raising silkworms)! Because I had a house, all by myself, they gave me the frames for sericulture. So when keeping silkworms, I had to go pick mulberry leaves. But I was afraid as well, because I did not dare touch the silkworms initially and put them on my hand. At that time, we all had to put silkworms on our hands to take care of them and to feed them mulberry leaves. So slowly I overcame these challenges as well.
I also said we also had to go carry feces as well, right? Ay, I was allocated my own plot of land, and I was taught (by the villagers) how to plant vegetables. Everytime I went to go tend the fields, I would go carry some feces to fertilize the plants. And so this plot of land received great harvests every year. Ay, speaking in per acre terms, they said I had the highest yield.
Ok, so I overcame so many of these challenges that I felt were impossible, insurmountable before. Slowly, this was me overcoming the challenges of labor and residential life. And one more [challenge] was my peeve for sanitation/cleanliess (mysophobia). So back in the city, people were not allowed to touch the bowl I ate in, which everyone in my family knew was placed separately [from those of others]. So I went to the countryside, and I looked at my bowl [there], ay ya! It was all black, the rings of black unwashable. Ay ya, I did not dare to eat in the beginning. But thinking that I had to overcome my [mysophibia] to live, I ate my food. [I thought] everyone else can eat their food, why can’t I? So I slowly overcame this. Whatever they could do, I can. So I slowly overcame this.
But I also thought, having received the rural peasants’ reeducation, how do I effectuate a small contribution, since I was brought over here to the countryside from the cities [as an educated youth]? Ok, so first I ws talking to the villagers, right? In a circle with them on chairs. You’d tell them stories, tell of stories about the interesting things in the cities unbeknownst to them. And they (the villagers) also have not perceived these “modern,” “advanced” [technologies]. Because even though they (the technologies) were present at the time, the villagers were not exposed to them. So [I’d] talk to them about it. And also for girls, I had to teach them aesthetics, with respect to how to dress oneself, how to decorate oneself; and for those who liked to sing and dance, I taught them. Initially, I taught them on a small scale. Later, I thought, no! This small scale did not have much effect. So we actually, having had them teach us [the ways of life], we wanted them to learn from us as well. So I wanted to start an advertisement/propaganda team.[4]
So, this propaganda team was first [a subsidiary] in the production team, and then we expanded to become the official public advertisement organization in the village, and eventually the entire county. We did not expect to become a county-level organization at first, but the entire team had great talents, [observable] since I started the organization within the production team.
We had few zhiqing there, though, due to the village only receiving huixiangzhiqing, who “return to their rural homes” through the toukao policy. It was a wealthier village [compared to other rustication destinations], comprising not only of mountains but also rice fields, for which reason we had ample rice but few yams or corn. I used my own rice, because zhiqing cultivated their own fields,[5] and I used it to exchange for yams and corn, which [the villagers] did not like. I ate the yams every meal after exchanging rice for them, which the villagers appreciated as they loved eating rice.
But anyways, after the propaganda team got established, I set down my hoe and taught people how to perform artistically for the propaganda team. Initially, there were only a few participants, so I taught them one-by-one, two-by-two as they came. It was a long walk to the propaganda team meeting location from the fields, where many labored. Only after finishing work could the youths come, and this small accumulation of members was how we got the propaganda team started in the local production team. After we gained in size, we were allowed to perform in the dadui,[6] which allowed us to perform in other nearby production teams and thus augmenting our size and reach. And as more zhiqing joined, I had to teach them the dance moves [which the team was choreographing]. In the beginning, some were hard to teach, as we had to practice a move numberless times before it was satisfactory; sometimes they cannot learn an entire dance over a month or even multiple months! But that did not matter for the most part as the overall team had not been impacted [by their poor acquisition of dance moves]. So after we became the official propaganda team of the entire dadui, we had to change the status of the organization to public [under county mandates], under which condition we were allowed to pick more members who were not zhiqing. We participated in the county performance series (which was an arts competition) with our dance and won first place. Since then, our popularity skyrocketed and I was selected to become part of the county’s official propaganda team instead of working with the dadui and production teams. In the county propaganda team, where I had to live long-term instead of in my village, I stepped up to many commitments, including doing live singing for county cadres after their meetings and teaching them how to sing patriotic songs [as part of the Cultural Revolution]. We (the propaganda team) also had to participate in other artistic competitions. Our other commitment was the oratory club. Sometimes, when policies, directives, and announcements are passed down to the county government, we had to learn the content of those official files and speak about the newest directives and dictations of the Communist Party to the public in squares. To make the programming less boring and more entertaining, we compile showcases, such as allegro, dialogue, cross talk, sketch, dance, songs, this and even model plays. We integrate all of these together, helping this rural county develop many talents in this regard, who carried on these performances even after I left the propaganda team. Our final task was help conduct night [political] study sessions, to which even our members were not accustomed initially. Usually people are supposed to arrive at 7 p.m. [for these sessions], but the crowd does not gather fully until 10, even 11 p.m., and we even continue our sessions until 2 a.m., at which time we are still reading and interpreting the newspaper to the village crowds in the county. Some [of the villagers] dose off because they are too tired. But most of the time they make an effort to listen, which I think is better than not listening at all.
After completing our propaganda team programming, we return to our residence in the county center, making the trek during nighttime. Often at midnight, we have to pass “grave mountains,” populated by unorganized graves on its ridges. Before, I could not even walk past these kinds of places during daytime, but now I have to make the trek after midnight, [often] at 2 or 3 in the morning.
Overcoming these challenges helped me significantly in the workplace and life by showing me that there is nothing is too hard to overcome. You’d end up overcoming all perceived hardships by simply pushing through. Yes, simply pushing through. This philosophy found root in my heart, body, mind, and soul, which made my later life full of successes. Later, when I became a radio show host and broadcaster, I had to learn English. [After university], I only had learned Japanese. But in that occupation, I managed to learn English and compose and speak in it. Even the broadcasting scripts that we compose required extensive knowledge of the domestic and international political affairs which were ongoing. So we often had to conduct research and compare situations and circumstances in different countries. Afterwards, we would have to speak about what we researched on radio. Similarly, during my job as a sales representative in a commercial company, I had to speak in public, through the training of which process I learned to be audacious and have no shame. Usually, only my managers had the eligibility to attend national commercial meetings at fancy restaurants, but many times they accede the opportunity to me. So what would I do there? I have no speaking time on stage as I held no position of significance. But that was no problem, because wherever you wanted, there was a stage. At those meetings, there was usually 30 minutes or so of free time, during which I would grab a chair, stand on it, and advertise the services and products of our company. The meetings were full of people of significance, such as party leaders working in the Labour and Commercial Departments. I became famous for my efforts, which I could not have become had I not had the rustication experience. How did I gain this audacity and immunity to embarrassment in the countryside? Because in the countryside, people thought you knew how to do everything, including chores, farm labour, fixing appliances, etc, while you’d actually know nothing. So initially, I felt a pressure to pretend [as if I knew how to do these things]. After I acted as if I knew how to do things, I actually acquired those skills. So I was not afraid to pretend, to perform, and to act publicly after rusticating, which gave me many more opportunities for success than others had.
J.L.: After hearing your stories, I find your perseverance and positive attitudes admirable. And in my understanding, one of the core values advocated by the Cultural Revolution is gender equality, correct?
[a nod from J.W.]
J.L.: So to this end, many “female role models” were picked and advertised to show how females are just as strong and resilient as men, if not more. I wonder to what extent did you feel you fit into this image of a “female role model”?
J.W.: In my village, we did not select “role models,” but there were awards for “exemplary zhiqing,” which I received and which indicated one’s successful acquisition of the rural reeducation experience. That is to say, you have effectively integrated into the life and work of a rural peasant, and that you have attained the conscience and habits of a rural peasant. Secondly, to be recognized as “exemplary,” one must also spread the advanced knowledge and understanding of [how the urban world functions of] urban residents to the countryside, thereby eliminating some malpractices in the lifestyle and workload of a rural peasant. It is an educational experience both ways, where we learnt to adapt to the hard-working, simple, skillful, and pragmatic lifestyle of rural peasants, and we spread ideals and knowledge regarding health, sanitation practices, artistic appreciation, and philosophical and spiritual enjoyment into the countryside. They integrated into us, and we integrated into their life, making everyone more productive by acquiring the merits of the other.
[J.L. invites J.W. to a water break]
J.L.: As you also mentioned earlier, when you did agricultural labor, it was exhausting, especially wielding a hoe which caused blood blisters. I am curious to understand what it felt like to hold the hoe, considering you were a young woman barely out of the teenage years? In other words, how did its weight or texture impact how you felt the hoe when working with it?
J.W.: As a very active, outgoing person, I had a flexible body. Even though this thing was very heavy, it would have been manageable, but in the beginning I did not handle it with sufficient skill. I gripped the hoe very tightly instead of loosely, the latter being a much more desirable way of holding the hoe. You are supposed to apply measured power with precision and skill, but I did not know that. Despite the weight of the hoe, I had not felt it because I had will and strength. Nevertheless, as I raised the hoe high before slamming it into the soil, which was dry, the upwards, balancing power shot the hoe back like “POOM!” [J.W. makes an upwards motioning gesture] and the vertical slices of the wood slid across the skin of my palm, blistering my skin and giving them white, bubbly bits pinching out from the rest of unworked, normal skin. The rural peasants, in contrast, knew their way with a hoe, and they used little but precise strength to pinch the tip of the hoe into the soil, and because their hands have already been worn by labor, they were less prone to skin damage than I was from the hoe. We had held the hoe near its tip rather than handle, which required us to use more strength than necessary.
Another related hardship was carrying feces and fertilizer. Skills like knowing how full a basket to fill to most effectively carry feces across a field without blistering one’s skin had to be acquired. In the beginning, both of these tasks were pains but once you proactively learn the techniques from the rural peasants, you accumulate useful experience that make these tasks more facile and tolerable.
J.L.: So after you produce the raw materials for food through agricultural labor, what foods or dishes would they be made into? In other words, what was the cuisine and culinary culture in your village like?
J.W.: We pick vegetables by ourselves. We go to the fields to pick vegetables and wash them. That doesn’t mean that I plan to buy them in advance. If I go to buy them, I have to rush to the market, to which I go once every week. If you want to purchase food, you can buy it there if you don’t grow them on your own. But generally, I find that the villagers are in their own fields because they don’t have much money. If you don’t have enough money, you can economize and cook whatever grows in your own fields. They were adept in slaughtering their own chickens, eggs, fish; some even domesticate their own fish in ponds! Simultaneously, there was an old tradition of slaughtering pigs before the new year. This tradition was fun as the zhiqing were invited to the slaughtering every year, and we would stew some of their organs like livers, kidneys, and even their brains sometimes with peppers grown native in Chongqing, which was a great delicacy: the saltiness of the stew mixed with an almost herbal fragrance of freshly harvested red peppers. Those stews were made in enormous pots, around which families and their guests would cluster during [Chinese] New Year’s dinners. They also had dog meat back then, but that is xnot allowed now I believe. The dishes they cooked in rural areas were extremely fresh and organic, and I enjoyed their salty bean paste condiments as well. Alas, the raw materials they had at that time were supreme. Nowadays, this food would be categorized as organic. We had to use fresh fertilizer made straight from human and animal feces to grow the food. And when the villagers would start a massive fire and cook on it, I often would put yams on top of their food, piggybacking off their cooking. The food was not fancy by any means, but eating was a joyful process there. But I have one regret–there were no cameras at that time. It was such a luxury, none of us have ever touched one then. So now, I can’t find any photos [of my zhiqing years] even if I look for them.
J.L.: So for you, rural life was permeated with fun experiences and joy even in the face of adversity, if I am correct? [nod from J.W.] But I have read of zhiqing who led, say, less fortunate or less fruitful lives in the countryside, especially on the frontiers of China like the Northeast or Yunnan. In Xishuangbanna, things got so bad that youths banded together to protest in front of government buildings, start hunger strikes, etc. Some of these protests were peaceful, and others not. So I wonder what, if any, instances of resistance or protest were undertaken by youths in your area?
J.W.: We did not really have any. As I also briefly mentioned before, there were zhiqing leaders for every group of youths. Now if the group, under its leader, displayed a positive, hardworking attitude, then they would adapt much better to rural society than if the leader or the group have negative tendencies. So I wonder, if I had went with the group of youths from my school, whether I would have been led astray. I am not sure—it is hard to say if I would follow their [negative] attitude and be led astray. Groups are often formed around a consensus, so often once negative energy infiltrates a group, they would gain violent tendencies to act against the law instead of abiding by the dictations and directives of the government. Nevertheless, I was only really affected by my own energy and attitudes because in my area, zhiqing lived sparsely, and I was not prone to too much influence from others.
Later, when I organized the propaganda team, we were a positively-oriented group of people. The stories that we were asked to tell the villagers and the political documents that we were asked to study all demanded that we face our tasks and life with positivity. The atmosphere in the propaganda team was lively and well, and we felt good about what we did because the villagers were able to change various aspects of their life, thought, and philosophy to keep up with developments in the city—for example, instead of only using wood, they upgraded to using metal to create and fuse their farming equipment. We were benefited as well because we learnt what was the right thing to do despite not being formally in school. I was lucky to not be involved in a negatively-oriented group, because I might not have been able to overcome that depressing atmosphere. But in the propaganda team we organized, we were mostly positively-oriented and would exclude or fix any negative attitudes and tendencies towards violence and rapine.
J.L.: Considering how well you conformed to the ideal image of a zhiqing, I wonder what the selection process that gave you the opportunity to study at Sichuan University was like?
J.W.: So the first batch of zhiqing who were “called back” was a small group, who would help with the construction of many critical, underdeveloped sectors [in technology] for the nation. I was not in the first batch because I did not have much technical knowledge, but units in the military industry were asking for employees. Those units ran for 10 years without a formal enrollment process, so they desperately needed people. How would they receive more enrollments if they could not draw from the student population? Well, they selected zhiqing, who were well re-educated in the countryside. They knew that we could be “molded” well into whatever they wanted us to be. So they would go around to pick zhiqing, first going into the district, then the county, then the dadui, then the village, and eventually the production team. The [university recruitment] found me at the propaganda team, and said I was suitable for being a broadcaster. I did broadcasting then at Army Corps 127, which did construction at the third tier, because of which we had to get up at midnight to carry bricks, tiles, and cement: I was responsible for broadcasting so I had to shout into my loudspeaker to wake everybody up. In addition, I also was delegated to regularly read Chairman Mao’s Notes on the loudspeaker, preaching essential values of resolution and sacrifice. “Set down our resolution to be fearless of sacrifice,” I remember, was the chant, “and to eliminate tens of thousands of difficulties and challenges to achieve victory.”
We would also sing stimulating, passionate music to help the army corps workers to carry all the bags of cement. Most of them were barefoot when carrying those loads! That was what third-tier construction was like. Then, the country was still short of talents, especially in the realm of artistic performance. I was a natural pick, but because my previous education was cut off and my credentials were insufficient, I became a proletarian worker-student, and I studied in a concentrated academy for selected zhiqing, after which I was recommended to attend Sichuan University.
J.L.: Wow, this process sounds utterly fascinating. Now, just to clarify here, what specifically do you mean when you said “sanxian” (third-tier)? Like construction in “mountainous counties” (shanxian) or “third-tier cities”?
J.W.: I meant third-tier cities, which, at the time, were remote and underdeveloped, just like “mountainous counties.” The military industry had to pick those remote locations to avoid espionage and scrutiny of outside forces and potential enemies. Innovation on chips, semiconductors, and related high-technology products have all started in clandestine secrecy in third-tier cities. I was a worker and broadcaster in the Army Corps 127, which was a subsidiary of Institute No. 44, from which I was selected to go attend university.
[End of formal interview].
Pleasantries and thanks were exchanged.
[1] Note: the opening question directly jumps into her thoughts on the Red Guards Movement as time for the interview was limited and rapport was established earlier at a dinner J.L. organized to better understand the lives of the narrators. So J.L. was familiar at large with the life courses, origins, and hometowns of the narrators.
[3] Toukao (投靠), refers to the policy whereby youths rusticate to a village where they have known family that can provide them with accommodation.
[4] Here, the denotation of “propaganda” used is that similar with advertisements, not political misinformation/disinformation.
[5] The government actually provides rice and food rations for zhiqing during their first year there, but starting from their second year the subsidy terminates and zhiqing become responsible for growing their own food.
[6]Dadui (大队), denoting “big team,” was a unit or overarching organization comprising of all production teams in a county, responsible for administrative tasks and managing the production teams’ tasks, distribution of resources and food, and political and cultural events.
